It is so interesting to read John O’Brien’s comments about how difficult it was for him to “drop the fork and respond to a call,” and that there were just one or two people running all the calls, which is a stretch. Yes, some people would go on most calls and some would go on some of the calls, but he is being disingenuous when he implies very few personnel ever showed up at the station or the scene. Just talk with former Pahrump Valley Fire Department volunteers about this and not the current paid fire personnel, who have an agenda to keep the county commissioners from disbanding the current situation.
Having been in a volunteer department in Oregon and a paid employee of the largest fire district in Oregon, in terms of personnel and stations, both John O’Brien and the union President Justin Snow are spouting some of the same ole’ comments union employees say when their paychecks are threatened. The comments that Justin Snow gave are the normal canned answers that fire unions use when they perceive of a threat to their livelihood. I know, as I was a member of a large fire union in Oregon.
I also was a volunteer with Pahrump Valley when it was mostly volunteer, and although sometimes the response differed, depending on the calls, Pahrump still had about 75 volunteers, with a number of those responding to most calls. To say that mid-sized communities (like Pahrump) cannot support a volunteer or combination department is totally false.
The facts are about 71 percent of all fire personnel in the United States are volunteer personnel. Look at Fallon as a great example, which has an ISO Class 1 in the hydrant areas, and a Class 3 in the rural areas of over 400 square miles, with a population of over 25,000.
The problem with the Pahrump Valley Fire-Rescue is, it is more of an ambulance service instead of a fire department — and yes, the personnel make a rather huge monthly sum and I am sure do not want that gravytrain to be derailed.
I was a captain deputy fire marshal, doing life and fire inspections, and a shift fire investigator before retiring from Tualatin Valley Fire & Rescue in Oregon. One thing I am familiar with is ISO ratings of a community. Currently the ISO rating for the community of Pahrump is a 6 for fire hydrant within 1,000 feet, a class 8 with a fire hydrant within 5 miles and a class 9 past the 5 miles.
Guess what the ISO ratings were when it was a volunteer fire department back in 2000-2001? It was also a 6, 8, and 9.
The money this fire department is currently spending does not correlate to a well organized or functioning fire department. Even if there were 20 ambulances in this community, it would not help the ISO rating, which is what results in the fire insurance premium we all pay for our property. I always tell people if you want to know how well a fire department functions, just look at the fire hydrants. There are so many that are covered with brush, which tells me that this fire department does not even take the time to keep track of, and do normal yearly maintenance work (which is part of being a fire department), and is the fire department’s main source of water.
I applaud the county commissioners for looking at turning this fire department back into a fire department that will function as a fire department.
In the Uniform Fire Code, it states eight different items that a fire department is authorized to enforce within its scope of existence. Seven of those items pertain to aspects of fire prevention activities and only one item deals with the suppression or extinguishing of dangerous or hazardous fires. Not one of them pertain to having an ambulance service. But this community, what it has, is an ambulance service and not much of a fire department. It is time for the leaders of the county to again, have a fire department in the Pahrump Valley.
Gary J. Toll
So Gary if you are such a weath of information and knowledge where are you now? I have never seen you in the past 12 years down at the fire station. Oh thats right you are one of these guys who likes to sit on the sidelines and armchair quarterback it all. If you truly were a member of TVF&R(wich I highly doubt) then you would know that trying to compare Pahrump to anywhere else is like apples to bannanas. You of all people should know the importance of a professional fire department. You try to compare Pahrump to Fallon(apples to bannanas)so I will educate you on the differances. Pahrump very small volunteer base, most volunteers left when they couldnt meet NFPA standards the rest left when they stopped getting paid for calls. Now there are a few that are dedicated but only a few. FAllon all volunteer(40) very strong community support, most work within a few minutes for the station and leave work when a call happens. Pahrump 9,000+ calls, fallon 400. Fallon hospital based EMS, Pahrump no private EMS. Last time privates came to town they wanted the town to pay them to be here ($1,000,000 a year) plus give them any brothel money and the free use of the fire station for there equipment. So as you can see apples to bannanas. Pahrump gets buy with what they have if anything they need more paid staff not less. So stop your complaining since you have no way to fix the problem, and stay retired. And last time I looked the only reason that TVF&R is as large as it is, is by taking over all the neighboring departments. Im sure they wernt this size when and if you were actually there.
J J I take it you are one of the paid ambulance people or one of the few fire crew. I do not need to say anything to you about my career at all, where I was at, or for how long. If you know of anything in the letter to the editor that is a falsehood, then feel freely to bring it to my attention. Bottom line though, when the county takes over, your union contract is null and void as it should be. And hopefully the county will be seriously looking at finding a private ambulance to have out here and maybe the fire department can begin to be an actual fire department and not a patient transfer.
Gary,
It’s disappointing to see your comments, and frankly they seem to be very hypocritical. Your comments clearly demonstrate that you have been out of the mainstream for quite some time. It’s difficult to take your thoughts seriously as you sit at home on your union pension, and I also know that you were part of your union Health Trust (to purchase health care) until you became Medicare eligible. Yet now you take shots at the very IAFF that provided everything for you. If the Tualatin, Oregon citizens had your mind set, you would have never had a job in the first place. Our communities are always better served when we have professional Fire Fighters available to serve the community. You need to get with the times and support the Union Firefighters….just has your community supported you in Oregon.
Rocky Hanes, President
Tualatin Valley Fire Fighters
IAFF Local 1660, Oregon
Mr. Hanes. I see the fire unions continue to flack together and you know absolutely nothing about this community. I do not NEED to support ANY union, if I see that they are not right for the community. What this community has is an ambulance service and not much of a fire department. Just like in 1978, when I complained about a union fire department back east that was out on strike, while the homes burned in front of their signs, I see not much as changed in the world of unions. I was wondering how long it would take for the union I joined on the first day of employment (only two of us did that) would send a letter or comment. Did not take long. Shame on yoy sir for not understanding what goes on in a community 900 miles away, while taking the normal union stand. I was a proud member of the fire union, but I also had a mind of my own, and was not afraid to speak my mind when needed, and never said the canned answers that the fire union states.
I remember a time when a certain vote about an anti-tax measure and the union came to the Fire Marshals office and asked all the deputies to go out and hand out pamplets to King City. The pamplets stated that if the anti-tax measure passed that firefighters would be laid off and stations closed. I asked the union President if that was a fact, he said no but still want you to go out. I told him to screw himself. Just because a fire union says something, like the one in Pahrump (which is still an ambulance service much more than a fire department), does not make it so, and sir, Pahrump is far from what I would call a professional fire department, from the management down. So get off your high horse union stance, and support the fire service instead of what they have here. A bloated ambulance service that not function like a fire department should.
Oh by the way, you have a rather high regard for the union saying I get a union pension. The pension I receive is from the State of Oregon, thank you. As far as what you called Union Health Trust, I trust you were kidding, as it has been so high for so long. Even when my wife went off of it, and I was alone on it, the stupid union still made me pay 1,200 a month, even though I was paying that for both of us. I called the union office to complain and was brushed off. Like a union does for sure.
You should not be so condescending in your remarks. It shows that you do not know what has gone on down here with this so called fire department (which is basically an ambulance service), and it basically belittles the fine union that 1660 is, or was. Don’t ya just hate when a union member speaks their mine or former union member?
Gary,
I am only going off what comments you posted in your local paper. While it’s true that I am miles away, it only seems fair that you would afford your local community union fire fighters the same rights and privileges that you had in Oregon. I only engage because you drew attention to the department you used to be with in your letter. It’s only right, that we get to set the record straight, and not let you misconstrue the facts. It’s clear that you are only stirring the pot and have no community good in mind. The IAFF Local exists for the good of the tax payer and deliver services its citizens need. Your comments appear caustic and are not positive for the community. I wish you and your community the best. It is my hope that the community will see through your rhetoric and support the vital EMS and Fire services that are provided by the IAFF Local there.
I do not have to, “afford the same rights and privileges that you had in Oregon” at all. What a stupid statement on your part. Your comments are so ludicrious it is silly. Don’t even lower yourself or local 1660 in a community battle you know absolutely nothing about, except thru UNION BROTHERS. One reason I support totally right to work states and encourage all states to get rid of the closed shop states, because unions are now beginning to ruin the economy with very stupid demands. You bet I am stirring the pot, because I am no union lackey or robot, and never have been. Do not tell me that a local exists for the good of the taxpayer, because I know as well as studies I have read, has shown not to be the case. And it seems that the large district needs to see what rhetoric you do also. By the way your last sentence, “…the vital EMS and Fire services that are provided by the IAFF Local there”, shows that as a blood brother union member, even though so far away, you have no clue what you are talking about, because what this place needs is a real fire department (even with a local is fine) but not the ambulance service they sell as a fire department. And I will carry on with the County Commissioners in Nye County encouragement to cancel the union contract, when they take over down the road, and encourage them to really get a private ambulance service out here, and to begin to get a fire service in the Pahrump Valley that is actually called a fire department, not the laughing stock of most people out here.
Gary “aka overtime is good”
or should i say that!! Wow you really have out done yourself for a career guy (1969-1996) who cashed in on the Oregon tax payers for weeks at a time at least that’s what your facebook page shows. Now lets see first of all the fire dept in Pahrump is not a fully tax base department and relies on billing for service to keep the very low unsafe staffing levels it has currently “Mr. Fire Marshall Gary <<<>>>>THIS ONE
“J J I take it you are one of the paid ambulance people or one of the few fire crew.”
You have no idea how the dept is run cause there is not an ambulance crew and a fire crew that is separate catch up on times before you spout off.
your ignorance is bliss. Remember that next time you spend those hard earned “sitting at a table eating with other DFM Prolly on overtime”Oregon tax payer dollars.
>>>>>>ALL YOUR WORDS
You should not be so condescending in your remarks. It shows that you do not know what has gone on down here with this so called fire department (which is basically an ambulance service)
>>>>>
Now lets see basically you don’t know very much about this dept but are first to say something
like i noted above maybe read your own words get your facts straight.and learn the condescending remarks you made.
>>>>>YOUR WORDS AGAIN
Don’t ya just hate when a union member speaks their mine or former union member?
>>>>>>
But of course i had to use them they were so nice and respectful
and for anyone who wants to see where he made his remarks just look up Gary Toll on facebook and check out his pictures it says it all in captions
“OVERTIME IS GOOD!!”
LOL ever said anything about overtime. That is your statement. One thing that people do is attack the messager and not the message. The message still stands, Pahrump Valley Fire & Rescue is more of an ambulance service than a real fire department. No change in that message and I really hope that the county commissioners eventually will understand that, and make this place into an honest to goodness fire department instead of a ambulance transport service.
There you go again! I was not hired till July 1971 and not 1969. I was a volunteer with Tualatin Fire District before being hired, and also was a volunteer after being hired, for another 12 years in the community I lived in about 30 miles away (even though the IAFF really tried to keep any paid guy from doing that-in their face I did then. Never have been an echo for the union.) The only billings that Pahrump does is mainly for the ambulance service as far as I know, although I introduced when I was in, how to send a bill to fire insurance companies by responding to their insured property. I do not know if they do that or not now, but they should, and it does not affect any rate the property owner has to pay to the insurance company.
And Wishful, lets think for a minute, all the ambulance personnel that travel back and forth to Las Vegas (all of them on all three shifts) discontinue them and what do you have left? Not much, so your statement about fire and ambulance crew falls short of reality. Sure they wear the same uniform,etc, but it still an ambulance service and not much else. For instance: does the fire department do yearly hydrant maintenance? Yearly hose testing of all the fire hose in the department? Etc etc. Not on hydrant maintenance as that is obvious.
And you bet, as a former and retired IAFF member with the largest fire district in Oregon, I had my own mind and never feel prey to the things that most fire unions say or do. They wanted to kick me out once, but could not because having a mind of your own and expressing ideas is still a cherished American custom. Sure anyone can look up my facebook anytime. I am for state right to work, etc, and cannot stand union tactics that are happening nationwide. I am proud first to be a fire service member, before anything else, and that includes the fire union. And yes OVERTIME is good, everyone likes it, but what I have been explaining is not about overtime, it is a lack of a proper fire service in this community. And that is a fact!
Yep overtime is great .. But i do think the fire dpet is a amb service.. Give it to a pvt bizz and give them a year.. then see how they do .. Or also start a vol amb service and try that .. Time for folks to give back to there town and stop takeing away.. and Mr toll I was proud to serve with and next to you.. and yes i do live in pahrump now ….
One thing I always did conduct myself in, is training volunteer personnel, working with volunteer personnel and never thought being a paid guy was better than a volunteer. I know what has happened in the past at Pahrump, with some of the paid guys telling volunteers (of higher rank I might add), that they would never obey them. That shows the arrogant attitude and lack of respect for any member of the fire service paid or voluneer. To anyone to say that a volunteer or combo department would not function if Pahrump, well the facts speak for themselves. How many paid personnel does Pahrump have now? And what is the ISO ratings? And in 2000-2001 then had the same ISO ratings, so why in the hell does this place pay so much for all the personnel??? Because it is an ambulance service!!!
The non-emergency PVFD ambulance “Taxi” service transports should be done by a private commercial ambulance service,,no reason to pay PVFD personel $100,000 salaries to drive to and from Las Vegas running a taxi service. Many departments around the country have run up the number of calls they respond to by running a ambulance taxi service and always sending a fire truck to ambulance calls with the only reason increase calls to justify more high paid union members.. Fire department are not supposed to be “Good Old Boys Clubs! If PVFD “and it’s staff of professionals” were serious about protecting the community they would surely welcome “anyone” that wanted to help,extra manpower at emergencies,,,extra manpower putting equipment back in service after a call,,extra manpower so more and more fire inspections can be done in the towns commercial district, more time for training, you get the message an way to give better service to the public. A volunteer program would also give many young people in this community a place to go and be part of a positive organization that teaches not only firefighting skills but also resonsibility and build character,as well a a path towards becoming a career firefighter,something really needed here. Yes having paid firefighters is important but the present paid staff needs to understand it is not all about themthis is what their union teaches,,being a professional firefighter means serving the coummunity,,not taking the community for everything they can get.
Here is a great idea,how about putting all the paid firefighters on 8 hour shifts,,a 40 hour work week,,take out the TV’s and bunk rooms, should they be paid to sleep?
I am sure that if salaries for firefighters here topped out at about $50,000 there would be no problem finding qualified applicants for the job,,
didn’t 76% of the fire department just vote no confidence in fire chief scotty lewis but town officials dont care. there is only two ways this fire department will change. one to start file law suits against the town. two for the county to take over the fire department
I believe that is correct, not too long ago, but very little information came out except for that fact. If one wants to find out in a community this size or there about, just do a search on google for firefighter wages in communites. I could care what the dog catcher makes in a community, but the fire service is another thing. When the county takes over, they do not have to accept the union contract because it was not negotiated with the county but with the town. Whether or not, some think the wages are too high or not, does not matter. When the county takes over, the local will have to start all over again, and that is what they are pretty hot about. Hopefully before that time, the country will be in some serious discussion with private ambulance services to come into the Pahrump Valley, which will allow the local fire service to begin to function as a fire service. It is more than just sitting in a station waiting for calls, or transporting to Las Vegas. Time will tell, if this valley will ever get another fire service that functions like a fire service and not like an ambulance service. I certainly hope so, and I know of many that also are looking forward to that.